I was on the bus, returning to Washington from New York where I spent Yom Kippur.
I wouldn’t have talked to the kid next to me him except I could not find the outlet near my seat to charge my phone. He saw me struggling and helped me find it. (It was camouflaged under the seat in front of mine). We started to talk and, after I told him I had been in Manhattan for the Jewish holiday, he said that he had been there for the same reason.
We talked about Georgetown and why he chose to go there and then he asked me what I did.
I told him “my story” which led him to say that he had no interest in the Middle East at all. His issue was income inequality in the United States.
Nonetheless, he was fairly knowledgeable about the Middle East. As the conversation went on, I discovered he was fairly knowledgeable about everything. Judging from his looks I’d have taken him for a jock or a preppy but he seemed more intellectual than either of those categories would suggest.
After telling him about my odyssey from AIPAC to critic of both AIPAC and Israel, he said this (paraphrase, obviously):
“I don’t get it. I’m Jewish but Israel is not important to me. I live here and I’d like to help out people who live here. 46 million Americans live in poverty and the situation keeps getting worse and worse. In fact, this country keeps getting worse. Why should I worry about Israel?”
I explained why and he said:
“You may not realize it, but your premise is Zionist. You think Jews are, by definition, connected to Israel and have to care about it. But that isn’t who I am. I’m an American kid whose religion is Jewish. Period. I have no obligation to Israel or to Palestinians because I feel no connection to either. I feel that as a privileged American I do have an obligation to Americans who aren’t privileged. I’m not saying I don’t care about people in other countries. I do.
Maybe someday I will think about Israel more than I do. But, just as likely, I’ll care about poverty in Latin America. As for your point that America is responsible for Palestinian suffering by sending aid to Israel, I agree. But how does that make the situation unique? As a taxpayer, actually a future US taxpayer, I will be contributing to all kinds of terrible things everywhere. But my being Jewish has nothing to do with it. It’s not like I would ever take a Birthright trip! I don’t consider Israel to be my birthright.”
I asked him if he was typical of his friends. He said that he was.
“The Jewish kids who are deeply involved with Israel or Palestinians are sort of the same kids. They accept your premise that they are connected to that place. I don’t and most of my friends don’t either. I’d say we are post-national. America is our country because we live here. Period. It’s home. But then we travel, see the world, and want to help other people, at least some of us do. But Israel is not special to us and neither are Palestinians.
“You, MJ, are a Zionist. You think I have an obligation to try to stop the occupation because of my religion. To me, that is no different than telling me I have to support Netanyahu because of my religion. I see no difference. It is outmoded thinking. Tell me why Israel and Palestine is any more my problem than that of any other American my age, or why I should think about it anymore than I think about the treatment of women in India. I have the right to choose the issues I care about and work to solve, don’t I? Or does my being Jewish mean I have my choice made for me? Show me where I’m wrong? I’m sure that if you were 20, you would feel the exact same way. Am I right?”
I had no response.
“Maybe someday I will think about Israel more than I do.”
You know what, this kid was me 15 years ago. I was in college, was well informed (if I do say so myself), and didn’t care about Israel much at all, finding it to be extremely distant from my life. I focused on domestic politics, just like him.
Since then, however, and especially in the past 5 years, Israel has become a major part of my thought space. Why, you may ask? It is because I was exposed to the rabid, irrational, ridiculous, obsessive nature of Israel haters.
At first, when I began to be exposed, I was in simple disbelief. I couldn’t believe that these people really were that obsessed and disconnected from realty. I thought no way, they couldn’t really believe in the Khazar hoax, or that there was never a Jewish temple on the Temple Mount, or that the Arabs were 100% blameless for the conflict, or that Zionists collaborated on the Holocaust, or that Israel maintains a menagerie of animal spies. They couldn’t really have forums such as Mondowiess where they complain that too many Jews are in positions of power in the US in an indistinguishable manner from Neo-Nazis, or forums such as Daily Kos where they accuse Jewish Americans of being disloyal for supporting a foreign country in a way that they would never accuse Irish, Italian, or Polish Americans. They couldn’t seriously deny that Jews are a people, or not raise an objection when others do these things. No way I thought.
But soon enough I came to realize that all of this was indeed the case. I realized that there really was a huge segment of utterly batshit people in this world who devote their mental lives to hating Israel, in the most irrational and obsessive manner. Some of them are even Jews themselves. People who devote their lives to criticizing Israel’s every breath, in a way that nobody ever does with any other country.
Because of the extent to which I was shocked and appalled by being exposed to this new world, I started pushing back, gradually at first, eventually more forcefully, and I became a friend of Israel. I learned even more about it and the fascinating nuances of the history of the Israeli-Arab conflict. It became so fascinated and attracted to Israel that I had to go there, which I did, and ended up having the most fascinating and wonderful two weeks of my life.
The moral of this story is that if your young friend is as bright, informed, and open to knowledge and discussion as you pegged him to be, he may very well come around to actually thinking a lot about Israel in a few years. But he probably won’t be thinking about it in the utterly simplistic, one-sided, negative manner that many here do. You probably talked to a future committed Zionist.
The answer to this kid’s question is antisemitism. Whatever he thinks and however he sees himself will not change the fact that based on history, if he lives long enough, he will be identified as a jew by others. The jews in Germany saw themsves not as jews but as Germans. Many of them were surprised to be so rudely reminded how much in common they had with the shtetl jews they looked fown on. That is why we need to have a democratic and Jewish country to speak for us and as an emergency homeland.
Golden Rule?
When or where does the golden rule of “Doing unto to others as we would have them do to us” enter this dialogue? Shouldn’t human rights trump much of this discussion? Shouldn’t all resident/citizens in our world’s nations have equal rights, the duty and obligation to vote on how they live and should be governed? Should moneyed interests be the determining factor in how we can peacefully live in this world?
As (i) said before: you are both correct. i’ve seen and been around really irrational anti-semitism and discrimination, coming also from people i’d believed were friends, and the stuff had absolutely nothing to do with me. However the policies of the Israel state, which doesn’t act on historic Jewish principles or morality, has something to do with bringing up this level of hate. But not all of it.
as said beofe: most likely the Palestinians who are about the closest group to Jews in the world-culturally and genetically, i personally don’t think are going to quit. i don’t know what the answer is.
speaking for myself, and as a woman, (maybe in the backward sense), i think that compassion and love for one another now should trump ‘ideas’, argueing and ‘The Mind”,
This kid might be right, but then under these present /actual situation, he might be wrong. Israel does what it does with the whole Jewish name and religion attached to it. It might not be totally honest nor true, or agreeable to all Jews, but it does and it did. That was the premise that Zinoist Israel was established under. There is an issue of loyalty that is in question here. And this young man got it right, but unfortunately most Jews in the world got it wrong. That is their primary loyalty goes to Israel and Zionisim ,not to the country were they live and have their family and lively hood. That is a very troubling matter that Jewish people need to think about and consider. As its giving them a questionable reputation of whom they really are and who do they serve. Jews have achieved great strides in improving their past in fighting Anti Semitism, but most of it seems to be done on the bases of intimidation and black mailing,or pure persecution of others. Of course some with education and proving themselves to themselves first and formost.There is an over sight to correct the real causes deeply imbedded in the Zionist / Jewishness behavior ,that seems to stear the sentiment of Anti Jewishness attitude.( its not Semitism,maybe the white man did not like the dark skin of the old Jews, but the white man does not like many others whom are not pure whites, look at history, and be honest ,before you comment on this one)
There is a great reading that cuts deep into this issue, the book is called; The wondering Who? By a person who was born as a Jew and grow up as an Israeli,Gilad Atzmon. I know too many Zionists ,or “blinded Jews”do not like him, nor what he has to say, but that because ,he hit the nail on the head in explaining this Jewishness phenomenon . They have accused him of Anti Semitism, yet no one is able to display this point in a coherent manner, beside hate and ranting. Sometimes ,its healthy to look in the mirror, and stop pointing outward ( and that goes for all). There are many great People whom happen to be Jewish who have done good things in the world, but also there many others, that their actions causes many harms to the Jews and others in the long run, while they think they are doing the Jewish people a great favor.And they also happen to be Jewish. We mostly need to be loyal to the truth, honor, integrity and honesty , so we can minimize racism and prejudice . To continue this cycle of they hate us, lets hate them, is the demise of all of us. This kid got something right, one can’t play both fields and not be scrutinized.
Hello MJ? David?
Are you guys going to attempt to disassociate yourselves in any way from these kinds of comments? Endorsements of Gilad Atzmon? And Stormfront statements such as “their primary loyalty goes to Israel and Zionisim ,not to the country were they live and have their family and lively hood.”
Monir, ya want me to start picking away at Palestinian identity.?
MJ Rosenberg, I asume your primary job at AIPAC was to clean toilets. Otherwise, howould you have become so knowledgible about Israel?
When the Palestinians start claiming that they are the Chosen people, the only democracy in the ME, when they start occupying and ethnically cleansing another native inhabitants people, when they award all their Arab brothers and sisters a Birth right to come to Palestine /Israel from all parts of foreign lands and obtain an automatic citizenship/ owner ship of stollen land(settlers), when they start claiming the ultimate victim hood and have their own Holucaust, that no one is allowed nor permitted to discuss, nor disput or even verify, when they pass laws in other nation, with the threats of persecution and jail time ,if you express your opinion about that historical event, when they start few wars ( bombing other sovereign nation against all international laws)with their neighbors and claim that the others started those wars, when they break many International laws and don’t give a Dam, when they spy on every country and person in the world under the umbrella of Anti Semitism( you know ,they are Semites) when they steal 75% of the limited supply of water, and when they jail and siege1.6 Million Jews from their natural needed humane and natural movement, then, and only then, you can start picking away at the Palestinians.
Just for your info, I don’t think the Palestinians are perfect neither , but in this case, there is no room, nor space for comparison between who is who in this tragedy. Burying one head in the sand ,is just not a good reason for one not to be truthful and honorable. Our world today ,is the way it is, because not a very good kind of people are leading it!
Hello Rosenberg? Gershon??
Are you going to do anything about this Holocaust denial?
Monir: “Holucaust (sic), that no one is allowed nor permitted to discuss, nor disput or even verify, when they pass laws in other nation, with the threats of persecution and jail time ,if you express your opinion about that historical event”
[personal attack deleted as per Tikkun Daily’s Comment Policy: http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/comments/ ]
WTF Tikkun?
You deleted my comment calling out Monir’s Holocaust denial but won’t delete the Holocaust denial itself??
Here’s what he said, for all to see:
Monir: “Holucaust (sic), that no one is allowed nor permitted to discuss, nor disput or even verify, when they pass laws in other nation, with the threats of persecution and jail time ,if you express your opinion about that historical event”
while i differ in respects with Mr. Monir, his observations that Jews are much too involved with the rah rah Israel and support attention, than the country where they reside-this contributes to much of the problem. As previously said, there are Jews living in Iran who are doing okay, about the same as the rest of the people there, and are also going to their synagogues. They’ve been there for about 2700 yrs. and consider themselves Iranians first. i’e.that they’re not going on the Israel bandwagon and screaming about how Jews are done in, etc.
For all my childhood difficulties, i knew that Jews helped other Jews, and were involved in a Jewish life in America. The Lubavitcher Rebbe also had a very sound place for America in his talks, and also why he came here and decided to stay. he did support Israel to begin with, but his attention was for people here-at least i think so.
I heard terrible things in Berkeley from Hamas Palestinians -who looked just like Jews, incidentally-in the early eighties. At a rally where there were many many Jews present who were interested in getting the truth. Hamas was all about hate, virulent hate. So it’s really both sides.
Are any of you parents who have had their children assasinated in Israel, at the grocery or in the West Bank ghetto?
Time to stop the violence.
Beatrice,
Are you concerne that American Jews are not loyal to yhe US because they “take care of oher Jews”? Where are you going with this?
Ove r90% ofm of the Jewish community fled Iran after the revolution. Unless yiou have had candid exchanges with Iranians Jews, how can you say that they are doing okey, BTW, If they did express any admiration for Israel, they woud not be doing okey. They would be arrested for being spies. But i am so glad Jews are doing “okey”
why should he care?
—because though he is a Jew and an American, he is also a human being and all human beings should care for their brothers and sisters who are oppressed. This isn’t about Israel or Palestine—this is an issue about Justice/Injustice and as such concerns all of us all over the world.
Only when humanity begins to recognize its shared identity/belonging will we be able to respect each other the way we should.
When as an American citizen he finds his country condoning oppression in his name or using his tax dollars to perpetrate injustice….he has more responsibility than people of other nations to protest. He has more responsibility—as a citizen of his nation—to ensure that HIS government does not abuse its mandate. It is his responsibility as a citizen to remind his government that its first and foremost duty is to the weak, the oppressed, the poor of America. That socio-economic justice is part and parcel of the wider ideal of Justice. Justice is not a limited ideal—while he pursues Justice at home in his nation…as a citizen of the U.S., he must at the same time also pursue Justice for all human beings as a citizen of earth and member of the human family.
to Sid:
most likely you have some good observations. I know that Kate Millett, one of the first Second Wave feminists was over there in Iran during the revolution. And it was horrible. i don’t remember all of it, she barely got out alive. I’m not sure whether the Jews that lived there were threatened as Jews particularly, or that they got out because so many people were threatened. And a few years ago we saw people on television murdered on the streets of Tehran for voicing any opposition to the regime.
What i know about Jewish people in Iran at present, i just got off the Internet, most possibly there’s other, and more current and also correct information.
I do know from first hand and personal experience that there’s more anti-Jewishness in the United States, and that a lot of it has to do with Israeli policy to the Palestinians, and that I’m automatically lumped with Begin Shamir, Netanyahu, or whoever’s in role there.
and also experience first hand rejection from the Jewish establishment, and Jewish people, at present and in years recently for not being what they want. Who is accepted? Middle class people and converts. There’s not enough attention and care given to American Jews. Because $ is given to advertisement for the Holocaust on television, and appeal for $ to Israel. I think that it will eventually fall apart.
There might be some truth, although i don’t like to think of the sexism involved, to what some of what the feminists said in the 70’s and early 80’s. That men can’t solve the affairs of peace and war, that they are too involved with their yod. And now that there are women involved with adorning a yod, and becoming men, that’s interesting too.
Well things are in flux, for certain.
I think with all the flux of the international situation, that there should be more attention paid here to Jewish people here at home in the U.S
Sid:
As for how it looks to non-Jews:
The Jewish people here in the U.S. who have newspaper and tv., and inter net space have some $ and clout. And they pressure for funds for Israel, and also complain to the goyim about the Holocaust, in hopes that the goy will not unleash more garbage upon us. So how does that look to people who are struggling economically, and who hear regularly from their evangelical churches?
You seem to have a problem. While you view the status a few remaining Iranian Jews as fine ad long ad they keep quiet, you resent American Jew s asserting themselves in a Democracy. You know that Nazi Germany grossly overstated Jewish power like you are doing right now?
Personally, I am pleased that Israel has the nuclear capacity to obliterate any country that tried to stage a second holocaust.