This year’s Country Ratings Poll, conducted for the BBC World Service by GlobeScan/PIPA, surveyed over 26,000 people worldwide. The poll measured how positively or negatively respondents viewed 25 different countries.
Just six decades removed from the atrocities of the Holocaust, Germany now stands alone as the most positively-viewed country in the world, with 59 percent viewing the country favorably.
In contrast, Israel – partially borne out of the ashes of Nazi Germany’s genocide during World War II – is one of the least popular countries, finishing just ahead of North Korea, Pakistan, and Iran.
How is it possible that, in such a compressed historical time period, a post-Holocaust Germany could become such a widely-admired country, while a newly-created Israel stands on the bottom of the world’s public opinion spectrum?
One answer being belted from the rafters is an all too predictable one: anti-Semitism!
However, the painful truth is this: while Germany as a country and a societal entity has largely (though not entirely) moved beyond the historical atrocities committed by the Nazis, the same unfortunately cannot be said for Israel.
Of course, there’s ample reason for this. Created in the wake of an unspeakable trauma and bordered by hostile nations, Israel (and Jewish Israelis) have perpetually been afraid for the country’s existence. The country has been obsessed by security concerns for over 60 years. And it is my view that, because of these factors, Israel has never had a chance to recover from a national, post-Holocaust PTSD that continues to fuel a self-perceived sense of collective victimhood despite its overwhelming military.
It is a collective sense of victimhood that has compelled Israel’s leaders to perpetually have their fingers on the trigger, and has been partially responsible for the human rights abuses and atrocities Israel continues to commit against the Palestinians.
And it is this aspect – Israel’s treatment of a powerless, stateless people – that has largely drawn the world’s ire.
Israel’s continued subjugation of the Palestinians – its brutal occupation, illegal settlement enterprise, theft of Palestinian lands, and disinterest in pursuing peace initiatives – has inspired the world to look upon Israel with frustration and disdain.
Not because of anti-Semitism. But because of its actions.
Unfortunately, just like the modern-day GOP in America, Israeli leaders view the problem of its unpopularity as a public relations issue. It’s not the ideas or policies which are the root of the problem, merely their presentation.
Part of this magical thinking is fueled by the fact that in the United States, where ‘pro-Israel’ public relations campaigns are most intense, a majority (51 percent) of Americans still view Israel favorably.
However, not every country has an AIPAC, nor a Republican party wedded to hawkish, ‘pro-Israel’ stances for electoral reasons.
Israel will only become more popular – or, to borrow some biblical phrasing, a greater light unto the nations – once it makes peace with its past and with those Palestinians still held under its thumb.
And those who think otherwise are only contributing to Israel’s decline and the actions that is at the root of the way the world has come to view Israel: as a negative force.
Follow me on Twitter @David_EHG
Argumentum ad numerum, the perfect way to flush out right and wrong.
Seeing as how almost everyone in the Arab and Muslim world views Jewish people as an unmitgated evil and has opposed Israel to the death long before there was ever an “occupation”, I put exactly zero stock in public opinion polls of the Arab and Muslim world like this. Who cares?
It’s like asking Yankees fans whether the Red Sox are great. You know what the answer is going to be going in, and it doesn’t show anything. If you took out Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, Turkey, etc. from this survey, you’d get a pretty different result. But in the end, even that wouldn’t matter much.
Seriously. If only the author did not rejoice in this type of information, and not egg on others, including antisemites, by posting this triumphantly at Daily Kos, not to mention the unbridled support of BDS. But he did, and then tries to convince the world of being pro-Israel.
67 years ago the allies defeated Germany and civilized it. Lets honor the allied soldiers who gave their life in the effort.
I agree with this poll. Israel has no excuse for its actions. It continues to treat the indiginous Palestinian people the same way that they were treated in the beginning of Hitler’s reign. I am fed up and angry that we Americans allow AIPAC to exist and that they continue to make our foreign policy in the Middle East. Our taxpayer money (in the billions each year) buys armaments for Israel to use against the Palestinians. Many of the settlers who are dispossessing Palestinians of their lands and livelihood are American citizens who never “smelled gunpowder” nor “had an axe to grind” as citizens.
Israel’s current obsessive right-wing government is trying its best to get America into a war with Iran. We already have given them additional firepower by the gift of airplanes to use against Iran’s supposed nuclear bunkers. They want US to do their dirty work for them. They continue to cry “victim” in the Iran ‘crisis’ while they themselves possess several nuclear faciilities capable of delivering enormous devastation in sites all around Israel. The nearest site – Dimona – is just a few miles southwest of Jerusalem. So Israel is more than capable of defending itself – thanks to the United States and France.
The ‘neo-con’ triumverate under Geo. Bush’s administration (Paul Wolfowitz, et al) are the primary architects of the U.S. involvement in the Middle East wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Israel has “cried wolf” too often. For centuries, Jews’ isolation within countries, their rapaciousness, and obsession with financial control have made them disliked in every country in which they have lived
The last two lines in your commentary shows that you are an anti Semitic bigot. Shame that this publication promote people like you to express this type of “opinion”.
Mirta, Alice is hardly unique around here
Alice are you comparing Israel to Nazi regime that was responsible for the deaths of 10 million people? Try and say you’re not.
Alice:
“For centuries, Jews’ isolation within countries, their rapaciousness, and obsession with financial control have made them disliked in every country in which they have lived”
I am so sorry that our existence has been such a pain for you over the centuries. perhaps it would have been better off if Hitler finished the job.
My real suggestion is for you to crawl back into the hole you came out of. Posting your anti Semitic views here is repulsive. Sadly, you are not the only one
Alice, thank you for your post, telling it like it is. I don’t see any part of your statement /opinion as being far from the realities or facts. What is sad and disappointing that there are still people like Jerry and Mirta, who wish to disregard any opinion that does not blindly support Israel and the racist Zionist narrative. He and she could not rationally and subjectively disput nor argue the points that you stated, as most likely they don’t have a leg to stand on, yet ,they and others like them wish to use name callings and insults as their weak argument or lack of. Their type of stands is what will continue to hurt the name of good Jewish people all over the world, and ultimately the core existence of Israel as it does exist today with its crimes against the Palestinians and against humanity. Those polls are very telling how information will still come out inspit of the major media cover up and the attempt of the Israeli / zionist agencies to keep the rest of the world in the dark.Covering up the truth will always come back to hunt you. Real honest people rectify their wrong deeds or mistakes , criminals try to hide them,or carry out new public relations campain to see who they can fool.
Monir, you seemed ti have learned a lot from the old time European anti Semites. The whole jews contro the media does not hold much weight. You are a vile being who has no interest in peaceful coexistence with the only Jewish state in the region. Zionism is no more than a national movement, which is no different for any other national movement.Try and correct your narrative.
Jerry,that might be good,learning is not a bad thing. what is bad,you and others like you seem to have learnt nothing from the Jewish European experience .You and Sammy seem to be buried in the victim hood dilemma ,anamousity and isolation, of us against the world. To be human you have to be part of humanity not against it all. When are you going to learn that slander and calling people names does not proof any points except expose your hatred to those who disagree with you and your Hasbara? Not every one who does not buy your kind of lies want to kill you or the Jewish people.We are more tolerant than that.You seem to be bred in a very toxic environment where you can’t function as normal humans in a large society.Its aTrible mentality that only sees us against them. This fabricated,Anti Semite slogan is way passed its time and does not mean what it was created for by some people who wished to hide behind it. It now means the people whom your kind of Jewish mentality hates. So,my advise to you, is get over it and try to express your views in a more intelligent and honorable manner. Alice and myself don’t dislike people like you because they are Jewish ,but because what they do and say. You need to read a great book that explains why your type of Jewish persons behave the way you do and wish not to get your head out of the sand. It’s called ; The Wandering Who? By an Israeli,Jewish guy by the name of Gilad Atzmon. It’s wonderful material. Get rid of your self delusional sentiment that we want you dead, it’s hard to live a decent life carrying such a poisonous burden. But remember that we don’t appreciate nor accept those who wish to deceive and lie to us.
Zombie Hitler called, Monir. He wants his rhetoric back from you and Alice.
The comments here are an absolute disgrace. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that this is an allegedly, nominally Jewish site? Or did David Duke just take things over here?
Sammy,are you and Shame on you the same person? In any case, what is it that gives you the liberty/logic that my support to what Alice wrote is rhetoric and not a good opinion based on facts? Isn’t it a fact that Israel have and is des possessing the Palestinians, occupying them, persecuting them, and in many occasions killing them? Doesn’t Aipac have tremendous (unproportionate) power over the American congress and senate, were foreign policy in the ME is decided ? Third, isn’t Israel the recipient of the most financial aid from America. It totals the full sum of all aid all other countries,Plus military supplies? Fourth, isn’t Israel and Aipac and every Zionist supporter of Israel is campaigning to declare war on Iran? Fifth, isn’t most zealots Religious Jewish Settlers of Jerusalem and the West Bank are Americans ? Sixth, doesn’t Israel poses the largest Nuclear arsenal in the ME ? Iran does not have any, but Israel want to destroy it because it might make one? And so on, you get where I am going with this, so where is the rhetoric , and not facts that you and all blindly supporters of Israel are talking about? I tell you what it is, you and all others know those are facts and unjust behavior by Israel and its supporters, and you don’t want it to be exposed. That is what it is. Don’t use associations with other names and hide behind labeling me and others as to protect your wish to deceive us, it’s not working, it just make me have no respect for you and all who wish to use deception as their way of life. I am not the only one ,the world is waking up and we have to live together if we want to save what is left of humanity with some integrity and ethical values . Good luck ! PS; Save your slander as it only represent what you are,and what you are capable of expressing about your feelings. I find therapy could help with that.
Monir, what you and Alice hold are not opinions based on reason or truth. They are based on pure bigotry
Sammy, how does that make you happy? Just to label us, makes you feel better so you can ignore all the other blatant facts of what the whole world is getting to know, yet just you telling us that we are Anti Semites makes you sleep at night? What apathetic easy delusion !
90,000 dead form Arab on Arab violence. How does that make you feel. That is something you cannot blame Jews for.
Alice, these words — “their rapaciousness, and obsession with financial control” — have no place in a rational, truthful discussion. I’m loathe to reflexively yell “anti-Semitism” as so many do when encountering someone with whom they disagree vis-a-vis Israeli politics, but you are either on the line or have crossed over it.
She did cross the line. Alice wold make a good Nazi
David Harris Gershon, don’t you see who you are allying yourself with here? The likes of “Alice LaChapelle” and “Monir”. These people’s insane attitudes about “rapaciousness, and obsession with financial control” represent the vast majority of the anti-Israel crowd whose good favor you are trying to cultivate.
Not to mention Alice Walker, who you have previously endorsed, who is now on record supporting David Icke’s insane anti-Jewish (and anti-Lizard) rants. These are the people whose attitudes you are approving of, and the people whose approval you are so desperately seeking.
Please man, take a step back and examine what you are doing.
Alice re-introduces the world of anti Semitism
On the line? You’ve got to be kidding! Your reluctance to come to terms with clear antisemitic rhetoric speaks volumes.
Disgusting isn’t it? But guys like him figure she can’t be ALL bad if she hates Israel as much as he does. So he cuts a fellow traveler some slack. Happens all the time.
This lovely movement has been hijacked by ultra leftist trash , just remember when they start kicking in doors you will bleed as quick as the proud just ZIONIST. Left ,right or centre to the anti semite you are just a Jew. Chomsky will not be spared, even as a useful idiot.
Just ranting about others and calling them names does not give any support to all who find comfort in labeling others as Anti Semites. What are Anti Semites any way? Do we have to creat a new name for you so you can have a label? Because you all seem to carry such a despise and deep hate of all others who don’t buy into your fabricated reality to deceive others. you seem to like labels, as they give you comfort, I will leave it up to you to give yourselves an appropriate label. I don’t need one for you, your words and actions are good enough for me, they are much more telling. If you don’t like who you are or what you represent,don’t blame others for pointing it out. Being of a Jewish faith is not the problem. By the way,the Zionist movement is not like any nationalist one. It is knowingly intended to dispposses and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians and steal their land.its not a theory ,it was planed and still is carried out to this day. Being in denial is not a healthy thing for any one.if you want to support Israel and its crimes, then own it and be ready to hear others pointing out what they see is being done wrongly toward others.including Jewish people who choose to speak out their true legitimate feelings and opinion with out being primary loyal to their Jewishness (as most of you here who are attacking me and others),but to justice and fairness . You can’t help but attack them too, and create a new labels for them as Anti Semites does not fit . You need to start seeing these issues under a different light of disregarding it as simple hate for you and Israel. In my humble opinion you are drowning in the feeling of victim hood and persecution . Abraham Burg, wrote a book called, The Holocaut is over, we need to rise from its ashes. It’s a great read try it. Also, stop ranting and listen,not every one hates you for your religion,not even me.
The narrative of the Palestine Victim Association continues. Palestinian history got its start in 1917.
I did not know that was a race or competition for victim hood ! If that is the case, Jewish mentality takes it all as its imbedded since Bible times in victim hood. The Babylonians the Pharos, and so on. Except, the Jews wrote the Bible themselves, so that should be a tell! What amazes me Sammy, is you will deny the Palestinians the right to their suffering on the hands of Zionists plan to create a Jewish home for Jews only ,whom most are living very comfortably if not well all over the world. That just discredit you of any sense of balance and desire for justice. You even go as far as ranting about the Palestinians feelings of dismay and threat, by a declaration of a supper occupying power to grant a land of other people homeland to a third people to make home for Jews only! What a logic and sensibility for human regards and sense of justice! That logic ,could only work for a criminal mentality logic.
Is the history of European anti Semitism and the Holocaust also written by Jews as well?
The Palestinian suffering is self imposed. As PA’s president Abbas said, it was the mistake of the Palestinians and the mistake of the Arab world to respect partition. Even when the West Bank and Gaza fell under the control of Egypt and Gaza, there was no attempt to carve out a Palestinian state. Why is that? What happened. is one occupation acceptable while the other is not. And you know that British Palestinian Mandate included Jordan until 1922. Hm…
BTW, Arabs living as full citizens in israel seem to be doing a lot better than any other spot in the Arab world. Amazing. Israel is the only real democracy in the region.
Justice is hard to come by in the Arab world, your world. Looking over the border at the chaos, is it possible for Israelis to trust their neighbors. No , sorry, Israel is not behind what is happening in Syria, in spite of what your conspiracy websites and your propaganda rags tell you.
ANTI-SEMITIC= Anyone who doesn’t agree you.
Anti Semite= anyone who writes these words:
Anita:
“For centuries, Jews’ isolation within countries, their rapaciousness, and obsession with financial control have made them disliked in every country in which they have lived”
The indigenous Native American people – A Jew – Bill Bennett – Proclaims – It’s a good thing The Native people were – indiscriminate, merciless killing of a number of human beings – A large-scale slaughter – When they crossed into the Great Plains – The illegal sale of the so-called Louisiana Purchase – This slaughter is CELEBRATED – By this Bill Bennett and other Jews – because in their minds – it allowed the United States to grow big enough – to save the Jews in WW-II – Why is it – The converts always – take a delusional view of what and who they really are???
I see you read your history. Were Jews saved by anyone in WW 2. This ranks with Anita’s post as the most ignorant yet. BTW Bennet is not Jewish, but you knew that.
Jerry, you are right in quoting Alice:
“Alice:
‘For centuries, Jews’ isolation within countries, their rapaciousness, and obsession with financial control have made them disliked in every country in which they have lived’ Sounds like anti-Semitism to me.
Monir, you are ABSOLUTELY right in ticking off your claims; to wit that Israel “…isn’t it a fact that Israel have and is des possessing the Palestinians, occupying them, persecuting them, and in many occasions killing them? Doesn’t Aipac have tremendous (unproportionate) power over the American congress and senate, were foreign policy in the ME is decided ? Third, isn’t Israel the recipient of the most financial aid from America. It totals the full sum of all aid all other countries,Plus military supplies? Fourth, isn’t Israel and Aipac and every Zionist supporter of Israel is campaigning to declare war on Iran? Fifth, isn’t most zealots Religious Jewish Settlers of Jerusalem and the West Bank are Americans ? Sixth, doesn’t Israel poses the largest Nuclear arsenal in the ME ? Iran does not have any, but Israel want to destroy it because it might make one? ” Sounds like the voice of sanity to me.
It reminds me of a scene in “Fiddler On The Roof,” in which a person observes that “they” can’t both be right; to which Rebbe Tevieh (Sp) observes, “Do you know what? He’s right too!”
Mike, a Methodist by birth, Buddhist by intellectual rigor
interesting that this is a Jewish website and there are people writing who do not want the Jewish people to exist. Do you all criticize peoples and nations who murder vast numbers of others? No, it is just the terrible Jews. The U.S. gives almost as much money to the Arabs as it does to Israel. Why does Israel exist in the first place? Because you bigots murdered us for 1800 years. Your hate is a sickness, supported now by Leftists who champion and whitewash Muslim extremism and murder. I might not like or feel good about some Israeli policy. There’s a lot of discussion in Israel about it. Because it is a democracy. And true, the Arabs who live in Israel itself, often have a better life than elsewhere.
and It appears as usual, the Left calls for conformity in its’ party line: the party line is now to get rid of Zionism and Israel. Are Jews a religion? iMaybe yes, maybe not. There is now also much discussion of why it is that Jews are into “following the rules”, and not much more. There is also interest from non-Jews about the Jewish religion, and also the wish to convert. And rabbis who are engaging and actually looking for converts. And there are people who don’t go to the shul at all but whose conscience and core are Jewish-to speak for justice, for life on this earth-not the hereafter, but this also includes the Jewish people. I don’t know of any other people or group who entertains this kind of hate and bigotry toward itself. Maybe because Jewishness is stronger than your hate and bigotry. And I’ve lost friends of many years, who well knew I was Jewish 40-50 yrs. ago. Just because of the Party line. Think for yourself.
Ms Tort,
Where did you read in words any one on this site, that is calling for the murder of Jews, or getting rid of them ,except in your own and some delusional victimized minds, that wishes to twist things ,as far as that, as to reasure themselves of their victim hood? It is actually the opposite, why it is OK for most Zionists ( whom are promoting and supporting such policies and intiatives,Aipac,most Jewish politicians and most Zionist Orgs.) for America and Israel to wage wars and kill innocent civilians as long as they are Arabs or Muslims and third world people. Don’t twist words, some of us know how to say what we mean. We don’t want some Jewish people – nor any other people- to keep behaving in ways were the rest of the world feels deceived by some of them,manipolitad, controled by Media and film,and financially taken advantage of for the benefit of mostly Jews and corporations only. That is very racist and discriminatory . Is this too much to ask for? Repeating the same thing in history and expecting different results is annoying to say the least. I have nothing against any one as long as they are not racist against other people, including you.You can call yourself any religion you please,just keep it to your self, no one is chosen here, by any one, its the acts that are a great give away. And people have eyes to see and ears to hear, that is on top of the Internet, were its not controlled yet. You are not the victims any more. Yes, there were times and we are not going to get into the whys now. Most Jews are doing very well, why the greed for more money and dominance on the account of less fortunate people ?
Do I see Minor claiming Jews are “greedy for more money and dominance on the account of less fortunate?”. I suggest Monir travel to Dubai, Qatar and Kuwait to see how the wealthy are treating the army of slave laborers.
Do you see MsTortoise, Sammy is doing it again. He has a selective type of observation where its only tuned to spot what could look as an attack on Jewish people only, and he disregards the focal point of criticizing the act of greed it self,in all people including some Jewish ones. I know and agree with you, not all Jews fall under the general stereo type nor all other stereo types,but yet we fall in the pit of generalizing. As this site is mainly concerned with Jewish affairs, it is naturally brought to the center of the comments.
Sammy, you are right about the gulf Arabs and their ills, but that does not make the ills of others OK! We need to compare to what could work for all and not just a few on the misery of unfair labour or occupation, persecution and theft of land. You need to learn to admit all the wrongs as wrongs, and not be selection of who does them first, then defend Israel/some Jews just because your Jewishness .Me being aPalestinian/American will not force me to blindly support all the wrong and ill doings of either one of those nations. What is wrong is wrong no matter what nationality or religion one is. I focus on Israel and the Zionists not because they are Jewish by religion, but manily because what they have done to my family, my people and the unfair derailing of the fate of millions of Palestinians , under the desire of accomodating other people, just because they happen to be Jewish, and I am not. That is a great discriminating and racist act against any body at any time. Defending such act because you are Jewish, and this crime was committed by mostly Zionists who happen to call themselves Jewish, even most of them did not parctice this religion as it was evident by most historians including their own biographies, but yet they were able to hijack the Jewish religion and persecution of the Jews so they can capitalize on it and the sympathy it generated to carry this unjust ,inhumane and criminal act against the Palestinians, or at large against the inhabitants of that region, whom happen to be not Jewish -if that is more tolerated to your narrative- is not an acceptable arrgument to defend your actions and Israels. What moves me to respond ,is how degraded the ethics and morales values of most societies and nation have become. And that is trickling from the top down. From our corrept leaders, politicians and money hungry financiers ( in america manipolitad and controled by AIPAC and other greedy corporations) take advantage of the masses, and have nots. I wish to focus on the acts and what they represent, and if they happen to be committed by people who happen to be Mostly Jewish, so, how is that my discrimination? Ms. Tortoise , I agree with you, many good Jewish people have contributed to humanity and our societies, I am not including them in my generalization. I admire quite few of them,not because they are Jewish, but because what they have done, and what they stand for.
Monir
“You need to learn to admit all the wrongs as wrongs,”
Oh really? And all rights a s rights. Israel was invaded in 1948, after the Arab world refused ot recognize even a sliver of lands.
. “:I focus on Israel and the Zionists not because they are Jewish by religion, but manily because what they have done to my family, my people and the unfair derailing of the fate of millions of Palestinians ”
You really mean the wrongs your own leadership and the Arab world has done to your family. There are so many missed opportunities you the missed for resolving the conflict. People on both sides of the conflict were displaced. That included Jews who lived in he Arab world for centuries.
Monir, Zionism is a national movement like all other national movement, If not for the 1948 invasion by neighboring Arab states, there would not have been a flood of fleeing refugees. hay, shit happens when you stir up trouble.
And get off your high horse about the US and Israel actively destabilizing the Assad regime. That is just wrong. Israel has stayed out of the conflict and the US is struggling to figure out how to respond. ON the other had, Hezbollah and iran has thrown everything they have at the conflict. Russia is shipping arms into the regime. The Assad regime has chemical weapons. This s some misguided rumor. Assad’s regime acknowledged it.
It is almost certainly the best game ever. It bears numerous variance. Specially online poker where you perform often against new opposition.
hello Mr. Monir
if you say that Jewishness or Jews are a religion, but we should keep it to ourselves-how does this stand up? i’m not at all sure of your analysis. Right now the Muslims are pretty active in genocides and killings of those who don’t think exactly as proscribed by whatever mullah is doing the proclaiming-being Alouite, Sunni or Shiite. They also say that whoever is not a believer may well be on this next hit list. There are Protestants in this country who proclaim everyone must believe exactly as they do, or a version of belief I n Jesus died for your sins. Christians were very active in commercial colonialism and racism, subjugating whole continents. The way I learned it, as far as “the chosen people”, is that the Jewish people have an extra responsibility. Since you are evidently a person with some learning, you know that many peoples in prehistory, or ipre-writing societies, called themselves “The People”-in Asia, the Americas, the Pacific Islands. I don’t think Hitler, nor even the people who beat my mother and all her relatives on the streets of Minneapolis six times a day cared if they went to the synagogue or not, or if they prayed, or if they were interested in Zionism. A Jew is a Jew. If you say keep your religion to yourself, I don’t think Jews go around really trying to enforce relgion on others-they might have some male supremacy over at the Wailing Wall, but that goes along with all the other so-called pure religions as well. If you say the Holocaust doesn’t matter, it’s over with-it’s not-TheHolocaust is the targeting of those unlike yourself, who are ‘separate-maybe they’re black, maybe they’re Jews, maybe they’re artists who have trouble in the system-people who are looked upon as weak and ‘fragile, or contemptible, or too successful. What would the world be like without the horrible Jews and homosexuals -and the work of women?,
i
Mr. Monir
if you select out Jews for having a nation, but then ignore or condone Pakistan as an Islamic nation, and all the other countries who support or want to follow Shari-a Law, which condones violence and murder, especially of women, how does that hold up? I’ve read that the U.S. gives almost as much aid to Saudi Arabia as it does Israel. There are many Jews who do not have money, even more who do not support money grubbing-who are union organizers, artists, or throw-aways of The System. Half a million Jews in New York City alone are poor. There are many poor Jews in Vancouver, B.C. Jews have contributed way out of proportion to out population to the arts, science, education and other such endeavors of all the countries we’ve lived in. That there are some who go in for politics-money-grubbing is true. But even having said that-look at Greenspan-he’s come out that what he did was wrong. How many Christian lovers of peace preaching from the pulpit of their Sanctified churches have taken any look at what they’ve contributed to the wars now taking place; the horror of our returning and embedded servicepeople in the Mid-East and Afghanistan? I agree wholeheartedly that there are some who write here that you’re a Leftist rant. and that that rant has roots in a sickness of racism that is taught and encouraged, far older Marxism . Interesting that a Quaker would support such stuff.
and yes, several points of view can be right at the same time, and wrong at the same time. But Party lines cannot, It’s follow the leader, and give your brain-mind over to whatever is Right-Speak and Think at the time.
Salaam Alaykum Shalom Mr. Monir
don’t know how much better I feel about this whole thing learning that you’re a Palestinian himself, and not just an American shooting off what’s the party line for the day. And agree that word-twisting is maddening. Is there any way that we might co-operate on something? i’m writing to try to find something to aid your people and the situation from up here-WA.-but not Seattle. think if regular people had some voice, and on other issues too-not just the corporate and moneyed or supposedly religious, there might be an effect, in time. I know that for years within Israel, there are people who are very much against what the occupation is doing, has done.
I really think you ought to page through Monir’s responses.Some are covered with Israeli conspiracies. Monir does not wish for peaceful co-exiostance under a 2 state solution. Monir wishes for the the elimination of Israel. Monir laments the past, blaming Zionism on al the woes of the Palestinians. At some point Palestinians have to let go of the past, blanketed with their own missteps. President Abbas acknowledged the mistakes of the Palestinians and Arab world.
Most Israelis want to give uo the West Bank, but there are legitimate security fears, as evidenced what occurred after the Gaza withdraw, Peace hs to be peace, and that includes surrendering the right of return and recognition of Israel as a Jewish state
Salam,Shalom and peace to you too Ms. Tortoise. That sounds Like what we all should be doing instead of denying the facts that surround us for more than 65 years of this sad tragedy . I thank you for this wonderful offer, and wish that I was more involved than just writing on some Blogs in responses to what the Israeli Hasbara wishes to continue in deceiving good Jewish people and others about most of the facts and deviate the course of discussion to throw us of the real subject and focal points . we need to try and find the justice and balance for both people. I am not politically involved in organizations and such, even though I do support some of them when I can. I am sure you are doing the same or similar things, and as long as there are people whom are willing to speak out and speak up about injustice in our world today, and maybe some can do more than others, we will make a difference.
Read Sammy,s comment down below after he read your open and honest attempt to say or make something positive , he immediately jumped in to creat confusion and mistrust among us.that is what his type has been doing for the last century.How very sad, that they wast our time and theirs in deceptions. I hope you continue the course with your honesty, maybe our world would become better than it is today, and the truth will come out . For sure the Palestinians made some mistakes, but that does not wash out what Zionists have committed against them and still do.
This will create more confusion, Monir:
From: 2012/3/22
Sudan – a remarkable address to the recent ” Durban Conference” in New York
A REMARKABLE SPEECH. I HOPE IT WILL GO AROUND THE WORLD.
These are the words of Simon Deng, once a Sudanese slave. He is addressing the Durban Conference in NY.
I want to thank the organizers of this conference, The Perils of Global Intolerance. It is a great honor for me and it is a privilege really to be among today’s distinguished speakers.
I came here as a friend of the State of Israel and the Jewish people. I came to protest this Durban conference which is based on a set of lies. It is organized by nations who are themselves are guilty of the worst kind of oppression.
It will not help the victims of racism. It will only isolate and target the Jewish state. It is a tool of the enemies of Israel .
The UN has itself become a tool against Israel . For over 50 years, 82 percent of the UN General Assembly emergency meetings have been about condemning one state – Israel . Hitler couldn’t have been made happier!
The Durban Conference is an outrage. All decent people will know that.
But friends, I come here today with a radical idea. I come to tell you that there are peoples who suffer from the UN’s anti-Israelism even more than the Israelis. I belong to one of those people.
Please hear me out.
By exaggerating Palestinian suffering, and by blaming the Jews for it, the UN has muffled the cries of those who suffer on a far larger scale.
For over fifty years the indigenous black population of Sudan — Christians and Muslims alike — have been the victims of the brutal, racist Arab Muslim regimes in Khartoum .
In South Sudan , my homeland, about 4 million innocent men, women and children were slaughtered from 1955 to 2005. Seven million were ethnically cleansed and they became the largest refugee group since World War II.
The UN is concerned about the so-called Palestinian refugees. They dedicated a separate agency for them, and they are treated with a special privilege.
Meanwhile, my people, ethnically cleansed, murdered and enslaved, are relatively ignored. The UN refuses to tell the world the truth about the real causes of Sudan ‘s conflicts. Who knows really what is happening in Darfur ? It is not a “tribal conflict.”
It is a conflict rooted in Arab colonialism well known in north Africa. In Darfur, a region in the Western Sudan , everybody is Muslim. Everybody is Muslim because the Arabs invaded the North of Africa and converted the indigenous people to Islam. In the eyes of the Islamists in Khartoum , the Darfuris are not Muslim enough. And the Darfuris do not want to be Arabized.
They love their own African languages and dress and customs. The Arab response is genocide! But nobody at the UN tells the truth about Darfur .
In the Nuba Mountains , another region of Sudan , genocide is taking place as I speak. The Islamist regime in Khartoum is targeting the black Africans – Muslims and Christians. Nobody at the UN has told the truth about the Nuba Mountains .
Do you hear the UN condemn Arab racism against blacks?
What you find on the pages of the New York Times, or in the record of the UN condemnations is â€
Is that why Israel and Israelis are discriminating against the African laboreres in Israel? Or all others that are not Jewish? Even the Sfaradi Jews were discriminated against in Israel for at least half a decade. Are you just copying the other wonderful racism that you hear of? You are such a wast of time.
Monir, You know, Sudanese fled Egypt for Israel after facing discrimination. Sephardic are well established in the mainstream to do well, thank you very much. And you cal me a waste of time? My my, you really are not doing well here.
Masach El Cheir, (or something like that), Mr. Monir
some problem with my computer, and things getting erased. What I connect to-as you’ve said, is that you are Palestinian. I’m not involved with political groups, and from what I see of organized Jewishness-Judaism over here-is that -from the bimah (the pulpit in Hebrew), we are supposed to all fall in line with the Israel line, support Israel-meaning don’t look at what’s happening. I had a friend who lived with the Moroccan Jews in Israel-actually for two or three years. She spoke French. When she came back to the United States, furious was not the word. She organized a women’s group to support Palestinian male prisoners, in Israel. She herself was an out-there lesbian feminist. Since I had never been to Israel, I didn’t have the same feeling as she, but I did listen, and hear. I tend to listen to three or four sides at onece. But what I connect to now, is that you not only ‘were there’, this stuff happened to you and your family. on some level. My friend was totally against what the Israeli government was doing-with the Arab-Sephardim, and the Palestinians. She went to Jamaica and liked it there, for vacations, so to speak, but had to return. She had ulcers after Israel. She died-and I think most of it-because Jewish people are connected to their ideas-maybe more than other groups-because of what she saw in Israel. There are many many Jewish people who have left Jewishnes-Judaism altogether because we do feel as a group, that what’s going on there is wrong, and it’s wrong by the basic tenets of Judaism. No one knows the departed are Jews, except other Jews-who usually can tell by looking. Then the rabbis go looking for converts, with some $, or clout, or whatever, but who will follow the Line. How spiritual can a nation be that carries on this stuff?
and there are all kinds of Israelis who are coming to the United States. And some of them-the ones I’ve had ome contact with-are completely un-interested in supporting Israel tearing up Palestinian orchards and people’s homes. There does need to be some way of ‘seeing the other person’s point of views’, by both sides, Wonder what dinner together and coloring-making art-together would do Fridays and Saturdays-or/and -instead of the armament arsenal? I read somewhere lately though that men are biologically put together to love war and conflict. In this country, women are training-mentally and in other ways to war, militarize, out-do, compete, etc. There are some places where men take care of children, so it cd be that some of these things are conditional. Mr. Monir, what do you think of the situation? What do you think would help??
Tortoise, i have lived in Israel for 13 years, served in the military. I believe in e 2 state solution, but I also want to se a real peace partner on the other side. Israel has made concession after concession and has gotten nothing in return. Israelis feel vulnerable for good reason, there is instability and threats from all sides. The latest, Hezbollah and iran want to open up a new front on the Golan. Real peace is achieved when both sides have a sense of security
Salaam Aleikum, Shalom Mr. Monir,
will say though, that some of what you say sounds as if you would like to ‘erase’ Jews, Judaism, etc. I’ve actually not been to Israel at all myself. To make aliyah-the trip to Israel, as Muslims go to Mecca, once in their life, I would like to go to an accompanied trip to New York instead, and also visit the resting place of the late last rebbe there. I know that over in the Mid-East, there’s a blackout in media of the other countries: Israel doesn’t exist. Although i’m moderate in ways, anti-Jewishness-that we don’t exist etc.-that’s not an acceptable point. If you are into that, I would first ask you-erasing the party you’re having the problem with-where does that get you? how does that serve you? Does that get you back the olive orchards or your home, or help the children in the refugee camps? 2. i’m not the person to have these kinds of discussions on any level-I don’t with women either. 3. interesting-people I know who have been to Israel say that by looking at people there, you can’t tell a Palestinian from a Jew. There’s evidence that the Palestinian people living there a few centuries ago were Jewish and converted to Islam. The Palestinian Christians most probably were genetic Jews who converted. Meaning we are all the same people-I’ve noticed we act the same, it’s like looking in the mirror, and one is just as nuts as the other, in the same way,. And the positive parts of both peoples are similar also. The will to survive. The fire and passion-we will not give up. The interest in having some education. Concern for one’s children. I know that before Israel, Jews there and Palestinian people got along much better. I’m probably just as stubborn and stiff-necked as the rest, but words that aren’t connected to the speaker’s experience I don’t relate to very well. hope to hear from you again Mr. Monir, and what you think would actually help the people there now.
Shalom Sammy
Hi! and I agree with you too. What do you think now, the ordinary people in the United States, without $ to speak of, what can we do? it looks like i’m on the s— list with the synagogue rabbi but am going to go anyway-I live in a very white Protestant part of the country. It’s very nice in that i’m really not in danger of being mugged-there is drug running, but it’s not in the streets and radios waking up people. Baruch Hashem. There’s more and more coming out how the government(s) are all into things that are really evil-only interested in their self-preservations using people for cannon fodder for their supposed ‘ideas’. it appears for all the criticisms of Israel, that Israel is interested in its people, and is a democracy of sorts-but notfr the Palestinians. The Tibetans happlied to the UN for years and years. I don’t think the UN is the solution. What would be your ideas of what we could do??
Recognition of Israel as a Jewish state
Direct negotiation that leads to a land settlement
Gut Shabbes, SAmmy
Hi! computer on the fritz again and had to go to hospital. I’ve never been over there, can you give any suggestions of specifics that i might write or phone to congresspeople over here? What do you think about the Syria stuff? Are our people safe in the north? You are in Israel now? Would really like to hear your experiences of the military there, and of life in general. was impressed that an Ethiopian won the Miss Israel award. i have a cousin who looks very very much like an Ethiopian, excepting that she is lighter complected. read something about a woman who has a food truck-for thirty years-on the Negev border.how are you and how are you doing? there’s too much weirdness over here with the people ‘wanting to be Jewish’, and rabbis rejecting born Jews, for the sins of not climbing the capitalist carousel , or misbehaving, etc. too weird. the only convert i’ve met who is absolutely sincere is a black woman who converted to Chabad years ago. But then again she doesn’t like the desert. I live in a beautiful tree forested place, but i’ll never forget being in the desert-even with an encrusted face from the sun-meaning the desert is home. Write! if you feel like it and have the time, i’d love to hear your views and feelings, especially if you are still in Israel.
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